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Hello there,
I have just picked up a 1928 button mag. in .32 but it’s missing it’s rear sight. I would like to get the correct one for this rifle if possible. I’m not currently able to upload pictures but anybody who is willing to help me value this thing would be appreciated. I could PM or email photos to them.
Thanks,
Tom
Tom, if its a 32 Winchester Special, this is the type of sight it most likely originally had installed. You can find them for sale from time to time on the internet or larger gun show. The last one I tried to purchase was about $100. Prices may vary though.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
I think Bert is on the right track seeing some pictures and that will likely lead to the easiest answer.
I talked to 1892takedown about this since he has been a regular contributor to my work on the 1894 sights. I think the 32WS smokeless sight is not very common after the early 1900-10s. It’s entirely out of the Winchester catalogs, based on the ones I have, sometime before 1916. Winchester also made mention of that particular special sight in a standard paragraph about the 32WS cartridge in those early catalogs. They dropped mention of the special sight in that paragraph after a few years. Currently the latest 32WS sight I data collected on, that looks factory, is from 1910. The gun in 1892takedown’s top picture above I have entered as 1905. I’m not sure about the second one pictured. My survey is no where near complete enough however. The best I can do is combine the survey data with what I see in the catalogs, sight books, etc. and go from there. I imagine there will be some found on later 32WS rifles but I do not think they will predominate.
One thing also to consider is that design was intended to accommodate both black powder and smokeless powder trajectories. Was there much demand for a black powder sight for 32WS in 1928?
Brad,
I just happen to have a relatively new survey in progress that has the serial numbers of (20) Model 1894s that were manufactured in the 1908 – 1924 timeframe that have the 32 Smokeless sight on them.
| Serial No. | Variation | Frame | Caliber | Barrel | Length | Mag Lgth | Proof | UT | Butt Plate | PR DOM | Stocks | Other/Remarks |
| 383091 | Rifle | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 2 | ? | 1/17/1908 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 392964 | Rifle | 32 WS | ½ Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 4/11/1908 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 400577 | Rifle | TD | 32 WS | ½ Oct | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 6/5/1908 | Smokeless sight | |||
| 401239 | Rifle | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 6/12/1908 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 408497 | Rifle | 32 WS | 26″ | F | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 8/12/1908 | Smokeless sight | |||
| 422312 | Rifle | 32 WS | ½ Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 10/28/1908 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 433113 | Rifle | TD | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | ½ | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 3/3/1909 | Smokeless sight | |
| 440176 | Rifle | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 9/16/1909 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 445557 | Rifle | 32 WS | ½ Oct | 24″ | F | Yes | 2 | Crescent | 11/9/1909 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 450783 | Rifle, Semi-Dlx | TD | 32 WS | ½ Oct | 26″ | ½ | Yes | 3 | Crescent | 2/24/1910 | PL PG I-CS | Smokeless sight |
| 450874 | Rifle, Semi-Dlx | TD | 32 WS | Oct | 19″ | F | Yes | ? | Crescent | 3/1/1910 | PL PG | Smokeless sight, Sling Eyes |
| 455741 | Rifle | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 3 | Crescent | 4/12/1910 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 509567 | Rifle | 32 WS | Rnd | 26″ | F | Yes | 3 | Crescent | 8/7/1911 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 535802 | Rifle | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 3 | Crescent | 1/9/1912 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 561730 | Rifle | 32 WS | Rnd | 26″ | F | Yes | 3 | Crescent | 6/13/1912 | Smokeless sight | ||
| 587155 | Rifle, Semi-Dlx | 32 WS | ½ Oct | 26″ | ½ | Yes | 3 | Crescent | 11/2/1912 | PL PG | Smokeless sight | |
| 612128 | Rifle | TD | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 3 | SS SB | 7/29/1913 | Fluted Comb | Smokeless sight |
| 715334 | Rifle | TD | 32 WS | Oct | 26″ | F | Yes | 4 | Crescent | 12/18/1914 | Smokeless sight | |
| 874965 | Rifle | 32 WS | Yes | 4 | Crescent | 4/9/1918 | Smokeless sight | |||||
| 970044 | SRC, Trapper | 32 WS | Rnd | 15″ | F | Yes | 5 | Carb | 8/25/1924 | Smokeless sight |
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert
I notice all but one are pre-1920. Any idea if the sights are original to the guns? Would you have any pictures to email me of the trapper?
Thanks for posting that information. It seems right in line with what I’ve seen so far. You are just about going to have every surviving 1894 serial number recorded by the time you’re done with all of these surveys!
Brad
Can I assume that the 32 spcl sight was an option… not offered as standard ? How much extra? I have this sight on a 1894 RBR that was re-barreled with a 1928 stamped underneath standard weight 32 spcl barrel . The sight may have been put on when re-barreled ? some time after 1928, as the original cal lettered is 38-55 dom 1902 . Replacement Barrel has both proofs No not collectable , but It was cheap exc bore, great shooter. Original finish Good on Frame and stocks
Phil
Phil
I believe the 32WS Smokeless sight was standard in the beginning or advertised as such in 1902, 03 and 1905 at least:
“Rifles for the new 32 Winchester Special Cartridge are fitted with a new and specially designed rear sight…,which is graduated for either Smokeless or Black powder cartridges.”
I do not know yet how long it could be considered standard. According to information the “The Sight Book” by George Madis it was replaced by sight 22A in 1915. I still think the most accurate way to figure something like that out is to look at the literature and then look at as much data on actual guns as possible. I think is more often found on 1900-10s guns as I mentioned earlier.
I would not know about your re-barreled rifle. Wasn’t 1928 during the period of time when there were some parts cleanup(?) stuff and the 94/95 hybrids also?
Brad
Brad,
I do not have pictures of the trapper, but when I looked at it, the sight appeared to be original to the gun. As for the others I have in the survey, I only included the data if I believed it to be factory original.
I also believe that the 32 WS Smokeless sight was phased out before 1924. The Model 55 was introduced in June 1924, and I have not ever found one with that sight, and the Model 64 in 1933, again none with the Smokeless sight.
As for my research surveys, I am trying to find as many of the Model 1894s as possible. I now have three separate surveys in progress, (1) First variations (serial numbers 1 – 8000), (2) All serial numbers 354000 – 999999, and (3) All serial numbers 1000000 – 2600011. Thus far, I have recorded a total of 12,578 (which includes the Model 55 and Model 64). I have programmed formulas into each survey that automatically extrapolate production statistics within each survey.
This is the extrapolation table for my survey of serial numbers 354000 – 999999;
| Variations | Qty | % of Var. | % of All | Extrp Qty | Calibers | Qty | % | Extrp Qty | |
| Rifles | 38-55 | 113 | 7.820% | 50,518 | |||||
| Rifle | 490 | 85.37% | 33.91% | 219,059 | 32-40 | 126 | 8.720% | 56,329 | |
| Rifle, ELW | 26 | 4.53% | 1.80% | 11,624 | 30 WCF | 833 | 57.647% | 372,401 | |
| Rifle, Fancy | 23 | 4.01% | 1.59% | 10,282 | 25-35 WCF | 126 | 8.720% | 56,329 | |
| Rifle, Semi-Dlx | 35 | 6.10% | 2.42% | 15,647 | 32 WS | 237 | 16.401% | 105,953 | |
| Sub Total | 574 | 100.00% | 39.72% | 256,612 | 22 H.P. | 2 | 0.0003% | 2 | |
| ?? | 8 | ||||||||
| Carbines | Total | 1445 | 99.308% | ||||||
| Eastern | 37 | 4.25% | 2.56% | 16,541 | |||||
| Eastern, Fancy | 4 | 0.46% | 0.28% | 1,788 | Take Down | 155 | 10.727% | 69,294 | |
| Eastern, Semi-Dlx | 3 | 0.34% | 0.21% | 1,341 | |||||
| Eastern, Trapper | 1 | 0.11% | 0.07% | 447 | |||||
| Musket | 2 | 0.23% | 0.14% | 894 | |||||
| SRC | 622 | 71.41% | 43.04% | 278,071 | |||||
| SRC, Semi-Dlx | 7 | 0.80% | 0.48% | 3,129 | |||||
| SRC, Trapper | 195 | 22.39% | 13.49% | 87,177 | |||||
| Sub Total | 871 | 100.00% | 60.28% | 389,389 | |||||
| Total Surveyed | 1445 | % Surveyed | 0.224% |
For those of you who read this, and are interested in participating in my surveys, please send me a PM or an email message. I am also looking for volunteers to assist with surveying the guns out there in collections, auctions, and gun show tables. If you are interested, please get in touch with me.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks for all the help so far guys. The Winchester is 38″ overall length with a 20bbl. I’m thinking carbine right? It’s not a saddle ring though. It’s a 10″ button mag so what’s that, 3 rounds?
Thanks,
Tom.
I have a very nice 44A rear sight. Email me at [email protected] Big Larry
Bert H. said
Brad,I do not have pictures of the trapper, but when I looked at it, the sight appeared to be original to the gun. As for the others I have in the survey, I only included the data if I believed it to be factory original.
I also believe that the 32 WS Smokeless sight was phased out before 1924. The Model 55 was introduced in June 1924, and I have not ever found one with that sight, and the Model 64 in 1933, again none with the Smokeless sight.
As for my research surveys, I am trying to find as many of the Model 1894s as possible. I now have three separate surveys in progress, (1) First variations (serial numbers 1 – 8000), (2) All serial numbers 354000 – 999999, and (3) All serial numbers 1000000 – 2600011. Thus far, I have recorded a total of 12,578 (which includes the Model 55 and Model 64). I have programmed formulas into each survey that automatically extrapolate production statistics within each survey.
This is the extrapolation table for my survey of serial numbers 354000 – 999999;
Variations Qty % of Var. % of All Extrp Qty Calibers Qty % Extrp Qty Rifles 38-55 113 7.820% 50,518 Rifle 490 85.37% 33.91% 219,059 32-40 126 8.720% 56,329 Rifle, ELW 26 4.53% 1.80% 11,624 30 WCF 833 57.647% 372,401 Rifle, Fancy 23 4.01% 1.59% 10,282 25-35 WCF 126 8.720% 56,329 Rifle, Semi-Dlx 35 6.10% 2.42% 15,647 32 WS 237 16.401% 105,953 Sub Total 574 100.00% 39.72% 256,612 22 H.P. 2 0.0003% 2 ?? 8 Carbines Total 1445 99.308% Eastern 37 4.25% 2.56% 16,541 Eastern, Fancy 4 0.46% 0.28% 1,788 Take Down 155 10.727% 69,294 Eastern, Semi-Dlx 3 0.34% 0.21% 1,341 Eastern, Trapper 1 0.11% 0.07% 447 Musket 2 0.23% 0.14% 894 SRC 622 71.41% 43.04% 278,071 SRC, Semi-Dlx 7 0.80% 0.48% 3,129 SRC, Trapper 195 22.39% 13.49% 87,177 Sub Total 871 100.00% 60.28% 389,389 Total Surveyed 1445 % Surveyed 0.224% For those of you who read this, and are interested in participating in my surveys, please send me a PM or an email message. I am also looking for volunteers to assist with surveying the guns out there in collections, auctions, and gun show tables. If you are interested, please get in touch with me.
Bert
Although not a collector, I have a takedown .32 #506408 With the WS sight. My sight is not marked on the sidewalls of the base like the one in your photo but otherwise looks the same. Only mark is on the target blade stating “Manufactured by the Winchester REP Arms Co, New Haven Conn USA Pat. Oct8, 1901”. It is missing a clip – spring – or something as I only have a base, a sight blade and a pin. Is this a specially valuable sight, or should I feel free to replace it with a 22A or maybe a tang sight??
Frank Gieske said
Although not a collector, I have a takedown .32 #506408 With the WS sight. My sight is not marked on the sidewalls of the base like the one in your photo but otherwise looks the same. Only mark is on the target blade stating “Manufactured by the Winchester REP Arms Co, New Haven Conn USA Pat. Oct8, 1901”. It is missing a clip – spring – or something as I only have a base, a sight blade and a pin. Is this a specially valuable sight, or should I feel free to replace it with a 22A or maybe a tang sight??
No, it is not a particularly valuable sight. Replacing it with any appropriate period correct sight is OK.
For my research survey, does your take down have a round, or an octagon barrel? Magazine length? butt plate type?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Magazine length is 25 inches as measured from muzzle tip (knob on the tube) to the takedown joint. Octagon barrel and curved metal buttplate. Thank you for info on that sight. Do you know where I can get a diagram of it so I can find the missing piece?
Frank,
I am unaware of any diagrams (parts list) for the old Winchester sights, or for that matter, a source of the parts. Typically, your best option is to find a complete sight and use it as a pattern, or more simply, use it to replace the broken/incomplete sight.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
The “Smokeless” sight for the Winchester 32 Special comes up for sale from time to time on eBay. The last one I saw, about a month ago, went for around $150 and was in so-so condition. Good ones sell for around $10- $225 on eBay. Occasionally there is a partial sight listed, but that is usually the base.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Frank Gieske said
Magazine length is 25 inches as measured from muzzle tip (knob on the tube) to the takedown joint. Octagon barrel and curved metal buttplate. Thank you for info on that sight. Do you know where I can get a diagram of it so I can find the missing piece?
Well. it turns out I do indeed have all the parts – the forward end of the sight blade near the attaching pin IS the spring. I had to bend the tip of the blade so the ball on that blade pressed on the barrel when inserted over the pin. (Hope that makes sense!!) Thank you for your help.
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